John Greven, a local defense attorney, is the Republican candidate for Summit County Prosecutor. He is running against Elliot Kolkovich, the current prosecutor, who was appointed to the job after Sherri Bevan Walsh retired in February for health reasons.
Signal Akron Government Reporter Doug Brown talked with Greven about his candidacy. The transcript of the interview has been lightly edited for clarity.
You’ve been an attorney for three decades. What went into the decision to run for this particular job at this particular time?
Sure, I passed the bar back in ‘94 and my first job out of law school was as an assistant Summit County prosecutor. So I worked in the office from ‘94 to 2001. When Sherri Bevan Walsh took over, it was time for me to leave.
A vast majority of my work is now criminal defense work for the past 22 years or so. So as far as why I wanted to run for this office, I’ve seen the criminal justice system in Summit County first as a prosecutor a long time ago, and recently as a defense attorney, and I just think that it’s broken and I think that it could be so much better. That is basically my decision behind the run.
As a defense attorney, what have you seen from the prosecutor’s office to say that it’s broken?
I see a system that over-indicts. I see a system that is driven by statistics.
We had a candidate night last night and what I said was if I win this, I will not keep any statistics because the prosecutor’s job is not to get a conviction, it’s to get justice. If you’re so concerned with statistics, there’s no correlation between conviction rates and justice. In fact, there may even be a negative correlation between the two.
Why do you think there could be a negative correlation between conviction rates and justice?
I have a lot of anecdotal stories. Let me give you one real quick example.
I was appointed to represent a client who was charged with failure to register as a sex offender. OK, they charged him, that’s a crime. After I met with him, the reason he did not register when he was supposed to was he was sitting in federal prison. I was able to get all the documentation about when he went into federal prison and how long he did and, naturally, he was no longer a resident of Summit County – he can’t register.
So I passed that information on to the prosecutor and clearly the prosecutor doesn’t have to take my word for it, but once he verifies it, the proper response should have been, “OK, we’ll dismiss.” But the response we get from the prosecutor’s office is, “He’s charged with an F3 (third-degree felony). What if we dropped it down to an F5?”
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I’m sure Elliot [Kolkovich] will tell you about his 98% conviction rate, but this was a guy who was clearly innocent of what he’s being charged with. Ultimately, they did dismiss on the day before his trial, but their first response was to get a conviction for something, some kind of guilty plea. That guy was fortunate because he was out of jail.
I’ve also had clients who were in jail who are innocent, and I can absolutely prove that they are innocent. An offer from the prosecutor would be “instead of a felonious assault, how about an [aggravated] assault, or how about a misdemeanor?”
Now in that situation, I can go to my client and say, “Look, you didn’t do this and I can show that you didn’t do this, but that’s going to be 90 days down the road. Or you can enter a plea of guilty tomorrow and be home tomorrow night.”
Again, there’s a person who is going to enter a plea of guilty, not deservedly so, wasting the resources of the probation department and everybody else, when the proper thing should have been, “Yup, you didn’t do it, you’re not guilty, we’ll dismiss it.”
I don’t see that ever happening.
Summit County is heavily Democrat. Do you feel that “R” next to your name on the ballot, your Republican status, is working against you in this election?
No. I mean, clearly it’s a Democratic county, clearly my opponent is the incumbent, so I understand it’s an uphill battle. But I think when people look into it and they look at my experience versus his, I think you’re going to see a lot of Democrats end up voting for me, I hope.
How aligned is your vision of the criminal justice system with what we hear from national Republican figures? I’m thinking about the “Make America Safe Again” night at the Republican convention, calls for more executions and the death penalty, and so on.
You mentioned the death penalty. I will tell you that as an attorney, I have prosecuted death penalty cases and I have defended death penalty cases. I’ve had, I think, eight death penalty cases go to trial as either a prosecutor or defense attorney.
I am opposed to the death penalty, regardless of what the hierarchy of the Republican Party says – I know it doesn’t work. I know it’s not a deterrent, I know that it is way too expensive. I know in Summit County, the last seven or eight death penalty cases they’ve had that nobody’s gotten the death penalty, so I think I know how Summit County feels about it.
I guess I do believe in prosecuting to the full extent the people who are violent. The robbers, the rapists, the shooters, those kinds of people.
I may be a little more liberal with the people who have mental health issues, substance abuse issues, or, frankly, young kids who do something stupid. I would try hard to get them into some kind of diversion program or intervention program or something that can help them. You need to differentiate the crimes and the defendants that come in front of you.
You talked about leaving the prosecutor’s office when Sherri Bevan Walsh was elected. If you were to be elected, how different would the prosecutor’s office be in general?
The one thing I would try to do that’s different from what’s done today and was done when I was in the prosecutor’s office – we had a system of vertical prosecution. What that means is if police have a case, they come to assistant prosecutor A. Once he makes a determination on probable cause, he will take that case to the grand jury. He will get the indictment in that case and handle that case all the way through, up to and including if there is a trial.
The current prosecutor’s office has a separate division of people who only do grand jury work. I think it’s too easy for them to indict a case that maybe isn’t very strong, thinking that it will just sort itself out as the case progresses. I don’t think people understand just the power of an indictment. Even if a case gets dismissed six months down the road, you’ve still been indicted on a felony for six months and you’re under those pressures.
I would like to spend more time with a review of cases at the very beginning and I think that, realistically, the more time you spend at the beginning of the case, the less time, stress and problems you’ll have at the end of a case.
This is a little out of left field, but is there a legal or political figure whose values you try to emulate? A legal or political role model, essentially.
Oh boy. My political role model, frankly, would be Ronald Reagan. To me, he is the best president of our lifetime. As far as a legal role model, nobody really comes to mind.
Elliot [Kolkovich] said Teddy Roosevelt and Bobby Kennedy, for reference.
We’re along party lines (laughs).
During interviews and candidate forums for this campaign, what question isn’t being asked enough of you and other candidates?
To be honest with you, I’m really surprised at all the various questions from the Beacon Journal and this person and that person. You’re the first person to — even though you casually mentioned it — you’re the first to talk about the death penalty. That decision clearly comes from the top of the prosecutor’s office. Nobody else would make that decision except for me, and I’m surprised more people haven’t asked about that because that’s kind of a hot-button topic with society. The societal mood is changing as far as how people feel about the death penalty. I’m surprised nobody asked me about that.
The governor has put a moratorium on executions, and the moratorium has been on for a number of years, so there are no scheduled executions and there haven’t been for some time and there won’t be for some time, so I think that has kind of taken it out of the media spotlight.
When I was preparing for this, I read what you told the Beacon Journal about how you could prosecute and defend the same case essentially — I can’t remember the exact quote. Can you elaborate on that point? The ability to both prosecute and defend the same case?
Yeah, the one thing that really sets me apart from my opponent is my experience. I’ve tried hundreds of felony jury trials, probably 50 to 60 murder trials, including eight death penalty cases. My courtroom experience is pretty much unmatched in Summit County.
What I said to the Beacon Journal was, “I can prosecute a guy on Monday and defend that same guy on Thursday.”
Right — that’s the line I was thinking of.
What I meant by that is — it sounds corny — but I’m a big believer in the American justice system, and I believe that it only works if it is at its best, when you have zealous advocates on both sides trying their best to make their case.
Like I said, I’ve tried many, many cases as a prosecutor, and I’ve tried more now as a criminal defense attorney. But whatever side you’re on, you have to zealously represent justice in the State of Ohio or your client on the other side of the table.
Great. Is there anything I should have asked today that I couldn’t find the answer to somewhere online?
I’ve already kind of given you the answer, but what sets me apart from my opponent is my experience. That’s the main thing. If you talk to people involved in the field, whether they’re lawyers, or they’re in law enforcement — I have a lot of law enforcement support — the people in the system realize that it can be a whole lot better and that would be my aim if I were to win the office.
Oh, I meant to ask this question: Whose support or endorsement are you most proud of having in this campaign?
I’m endorsed by former prosecutor Lynn Slaby, who was a longtime [Summit County] prosecutor. I’m endorsed by former prosecutor Mike Callahan, who was both a judge and a [Summit County] prosecutor. I’m endorsed by former [Summit County] Sheriff Drew Alexander. I’m endorsed by people who have held the office.
But I’ll be honest with you, if you look at my opponent, he’s getting endorsements left and right, every day of the week, from various Democratic people. You know, Emilia Sykes endorsed Elliot Kolkovich. Well, Emilia Sykes has never met me, Emilia Sykes has never talked to me, Emilia Sykes has never reached out to try to talk to me to see what I think and what my ideas are.
So I think endorsements are, really, political bullshit.
It appears that all the local Democrat heavy hitters have lined up to just endorse Democrats.
Yeah, if you look at Elliot – and Elliot and I are friends, unlike some of the other races, he and I actually get along well. We have different ideas but we can be friendly about it. But if you look at his Facebook page, he’s always getting endorsed by this mayor of some city, and this council member from that city and everything. And it’s all B.S., it’s all Democrat stuff.
I am not a politician. There has been a politician running that office for the past 23 years. Now, Summit County has to decide: Do you want another politician or do you want somebody who knows their way around the courtroom?
